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On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 Shan wrote:
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Listsibs, (I hope I snipped enough of these posts for the dictates of netiquette.) Anyway, I just wanted to write and say thank you to all of you -- Shan, Ann, Mindy, Michelle, Gina, and Marmot -- for offering your stories in support of those of us who love in secret. It takes a lot of guts to reveal so much, more guts than I have sometimes. I'm wondering if this is a gender thing. Is it easier for women to talk about these things than it is for men? Or is it a generational thing? Is it easier for those under 30 than for those over 30? Or is it just more difficult for me? Because even though I've faced a lot of threatening things in my life, when in the military and while on the job, this one is one of the most threatening. I'm a lot like Joe on The Watchman (to bring this on-topic [I hated writing the snippet]). He seems to be the 'strong silent type,' sort of a Gary Cooper kind of guy. That's the romanticized version. Really he's the stoic, repressed type. Intelligent but non-verbal. Or not- easily-verbal. That's me. I also want to thank Wolf for opening up on this list, also. At least I know there's another *guy* out there going through this and willing to open up. It helps a lot. It's hard enough, at my age, to realize that my sexual preferences are not what I once thought they were, but when most of the testifying here has been done by women, I started to wonder about my masculinity, as well. So it's comforting to hear from the estrogen-deficient :) Again, thanks guys. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo Sat, 5 Dec 1998, 7:10 p.m. "Hey, Jim!" "Yeah, Chief?" "You know the rally for 'The Watchman' we were talking about the other day?" "Yeah, the 'secret' rally in January that supposedly only people on the net know about, Chief?" "I told you, I got the information from an e-mail friend. Anyway, she was wondering whether I was going to go. What do you think, Jim, do you want to go? Might be fun." "You want to travel the length of 3 states, one of which is really the length of two of ours, in the middle of fuckin' winter, to go to a one- day event for a TV show? Are you out of your mind, Sandburg?" "But Jim! I know how much you identify with the guys on that show. And there is the possibility that the show might be renewed for another season if we show enough support for it. Besides, we haven't had a vacation in a long time. We could spend a few extra days down there in California. Winter in LA is a bit warmer than winter in Cascade, Jim. And it just might be fun! You remember fun, eh Jim?" "Well, I'll think about it." "Ah, Jim! that's great, man! Maybe we can meet my e-mail friend down there!" "Sandburg, do you even really know her? How do you know it's safe to meet her? You don't even know she is who she says she is. I mean, it's one thing to get stories from her or TV show gossip, but ..." "Well, Jim, I am on e-mail and I'm a good guy. And sometimes you can just tell that someone is OK. Besides we'll be with about 200 other fans in public. If we meet her and get a bad feeling, we can always just take off." "I guess... So why do you want to meet her in the first place? You aren't having some sort of on-line romance or anything, are you?" "Well, no actually. We just 'talk.' About stuff. She's been confiding in me about her feelings for her best friend. She's worried they won't be reciprocated. I just offer her support, sometimes." "That's nice of you, Chief. You sure that's all you offer her?" "Look, Ellison, I told you there wasn't anything else to it. Besides, where do you get off criticizing my social life?! I'm a sentient adult. I can make my own decisions and my own friends. You are acting way too protective for the situation, Jim. You aren't my father, big brother or ... or ..." "Or what?" "Well, the last person I saw get into all this much insinuation was the girlfriend of one of my students -- Now there was an immature couple, if ever I saw one!" "You're saying I'm acting like somebody's jealous girlfriend, Chief?!" "Somebody's immature, 18-year-old, jealous girlfriend." "Look, Sandburg, no need to get insulting. I'm just ... I don't know .. I mean ... never mind. If you say there's no romance, there's no romance. I'm sorry. It's just that the whole anonymous friendships on the net thing makes me nervous. It can be perfectly OK, I know. But there are occasional risks..." "Yeah, Jim, I know. If it makes you feel better, I use an alias and an account not based at school so no one can easily look up my identity. It's a precaution." "Well, OK, then. So your friend suffers from unrequited love? What kind of advice do you give her?" "I really don't know what advice to give her, Jim." "What? You've never been in that situation?" "Man, are you kidding? I'm ... uh ... let's just say that I've definitely been in her situation. ... But I SO haven't figured out what to do about being in that situation. How about you? You know what to do? What I could tell her?" "'Fraid not, Chief. Nothing sage to say, here." "It sucks, man." "Tell me." oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Listsibs, I'm trying to talk my roommate into going to the Watchman LA rally in January. I don't know, yet, whether we actually will go but if we do, I was thinking maybe we could carpool with someone. So are there other listsibs from the Vancouver/northern Washington area who might want to share a vehicle? If so, please e-mail me off list at wolf@washnet.com Thanks, --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:
Hey, Wolf! You never got back to us on this. Any good news? Don't mean to pry ... well, not too much, anyway. ;) Have you had "that talk" with your roomie, yet? If so, what happened? If not, have you gotten any inkling at all about how he might respond? You don't have to go into excruciating *details* or anything. Just ... well ... did you *talk*? Inquiring [read 'nosy'] minds WANT TO KNOW. Waiting to hear from you. --Marmot oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
If he's so immature, why do you love him? What is it about him that keeps you there? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
Wolf, My roommate and I live in this general region and have talked about going, but I'm not so sure I can. Or want to. I can never predict my work schedule and it's about a 2-3 day drive one way for a one-day event, so I'm not sure that I can really afford to do that. My roommate suggested we could turn it into a vacation and God knows, we could use one! But I don't know... The thing that really bugs me is that he is really hot on meeting this girl down there in LA, and I just feel like I'd be in the way. Besides, it's starting to hurt when I see him flirting with women. He claims they're 'just friends,' but it still bugs me... But if we end up going, I'll let you know and maybe we *can* carpool. It'll help on the expenses and it'll be great to share the driving, so we're not so exhausted when we get there. When you get there, where were you planning on staying? --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Wolf's post asking for car-poolers reminds me of another consideration: Where will everybody be staying once we get to LA? I don't know whether I'll be going. I might not, due to personal reasons. But I haven't decided, yet. But to help me with my decision, I need to know where everybody's going to be staying in LA. Thanks, --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Panther wrote:
Hi Panther, Gee, it sure would be nice if you and your roomie could come. Show support for our favorite show. Rumor has it that the show is in trouble because the wrong demographics are watching, namely, women. To have men in the 18-49 bracket show up would be a major boost. I'm staying at the main hotel but there are plenty of other accommodations nearby, including floor space at local listsibs' home. There is a website set up to help us and match people who need and have accommodations. I would love to meet you and your roomie. Maybe if you want, I can VERY discreetly try to find out how he feels about you. Just a thought. Hope to see you at the rally. Tracy oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Oh, Panther? Please feel free to stay with me! I'm having a Watchman slumber party and I just have this feeling that you will *fit* right in..so come on down! oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Sun, 7 Dec 1998, allison wrote:
Allison, I truly appreciate this offer. I don't know yet whether I'm coming, but if I am, I'd like to stay there. You've been very supportive of me in earlier posts and e-mails, so I think we'll get along fine. Do you have room for both of us? And there might be another problem ... maybe not... I know that most of the list members are women and you said that you had room for 12 people. How ... shy ... are the people who are staying with you? Will they care that there might be a couple of guys at this 'slumber party' of yours? I ask because frankly I've never been to a slumber party and I've overheard some stories at work about some pretty wild stuff. What goes on at a slumber party and especially a Watchman slumber party? Thanks, --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Dear Panther: There is definitely room for both you and your roomie. As to what we do at a Slumber Party? Well, naturally we will be watching our favorite show, The Watchman. And the usual popcorn poping, soda guzzling and story swapping. It would be very interesting to have guys participate and maybe we can put a dent in that saying, Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars. I'm betting we will all have a great deal in common and will get along great! Now I understand the sleeping arrangements could be a little tricky....but I'm more than willing to let you and your roomie take the other bedroom...that is, if you don't mind sharing a bed? It's a king. There are also two bathrooms. Just one thing tho'. Hope neither of you smoke? It is a non-smoking house and I also have two dogs. Not allergic are you? Well, look forward to having you, here's hoping and I have my fingers crossed. We all gotta get together on this thing if our show is going to be renewed for the 1999/2000 season. Wow, 2000! oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
To Panther:
PS: We only rip the clothes off of guys on alternate Wednesday's and we
are thinking of switching this practice to Monday's at 9:00! You and
your roomie will be perfectly safe!
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On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Allison wrote:
This sounds like a good time. It'll be interesting, to say the least.
My roommate is likely to take notes for a paper on this, though. Be
warned. ;)
If there are going to be so many people, I'd hate to take a whole
bedroom for just the 2 of us. We could just sleep on the living room
floor in our sleeping bags. But if the segregation will help people
feel more comfortable, then thanks.
As for sharing the bed, I'm sure it'll be OK. We've shared close
quarters before. So I'm sure we can handle it.
I'm glad to hear it's a non-smoking house. I have a rather sensitive
nose when it comes to certain pollutants. I also seem to be allergic to
flowering plants. I don't think I'm allergic to cats or dogs, though.
Again, thanks for putting us up. I really appreciate it.
--Panther
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To Panther:
Hey, no problem! Look forward to having you both. I too, have a
sensitive nose and use only organic cleansers, detergent and shampoos,
even on the dogs!
See you in January!
allison, may the Watchman....watch over you.
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