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Wolf, I really believe in the *show* and tell method. In other words, I'd have Jake "show" Joe in several different ways, over a short period of time. Then *tell* him one evening, quiet, fire in the fireplace, his favorite music.... How could Jake show Joe? -Doing something for Joe that Jake doesn't normally do, but that Joe does. -Cooking a favorite meal - Breakfast, lunch or dinner....or even all three! -Doing small things for Joe, things he really hates doing himself. Of course, there is much to be said for the, um, blunt approach? Joe walks in the door and Jake hauls off and kisses him! Works for me! Heck, would work *on* me! Hey Wolf, you don't happen to have a brother do you? Any of these ideas appeal to you? Think they'd work for you? oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote: [snip]
I've never done a 'chat' before, but I think it might be worth a try. This waiting in between for replies is really irritating when you want immediate feedback. OK I'll try it. Let's go to #watch. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
wolf: you there? panther: yes wolf: so how do you wanta do this? Who goes first? panther: well you're the one that was breathing into a paper bag. wolf: so i'm the one that is nervous about rehearsing too panther: i can't hang out here all day, sport, so let's get this over with OK wolf: OK the question was if your guy confessed to you what would you want him to say to you. What should I say? panther: i'd just want him to come straight out with it. wolf: like that helps. i'm not even sure what IT is. or if there is more than one IT. panther: what are you talking about more than one IT? wolf: well there is more here than just that I love him right panther: more than that? wolf: well you know panther: what? panther: where did you go? are you still there? wolf: still here. panther: well? wolf: well, I've never panther: never what? told somebody you loved them? wolf: no never a guy and i've never wanted to panther: hello? where'd you go? you know the way you're clamming up we might as well do e-mail. wolf: just be patient. this is harder than i thought it would be. panther: well you don't have to confess anything to me. you could just explain what you want to say to him. wolf: well i've never felt panther: I don't get this. why are you sending before you finish your sentences? it's hard to figure out what's on your mind that way. wolf: I was hitting send out of frustration cuz i didn't know what i wanted to say next. sorry. panther: are you trying to not talk about sommething embarrassing? wolf: OK it's the sex thing. panther: so would you WANT to talk to him about sex? on the first conversation? wolf: i guess i don't have to. But wouldn't it be sort of implied? panther: depends. how would you get started? panther: you could just say you love him and that's it. you could wait on the embarrassing stuff wolf: get real. so i say like 'i love you' and he says ' i love you too' and then i say no you don't get it panther: why would it go that way? oh i see you could say "i'm IN love with you." and then that clears up some of the confusion maybe. wolf: but you know you sort of changed the subject. The question was what would YOU want to hear. You're supposed to be coaching me. panther: what would i want to hear? wolf: yeah. how would you want to hear it? You know we could do sort of like role playing. i could be him and you could be *you*. panther: well at least i have the easier job wolf: LOL you know this woman i knew said that she and her girlfriend used to practice kissing each other pretending they were potential boyfriends. she wolf: said that she knew a lot of girls that did that and the funny thing was that some of the girls liked playing around with their wolf: girlfriends so much that they stopped pretending and just went for it with each other. panther: Is there a point to that story? wolf: just remembered a funny story. panther: you're not hinting anything are you? wolf: hinting? panther: like we're acting like pubescent girls? wolf: no no i just thought it was funny guess i'm just embarrassed. OK you're you and i'm your roommate. what do i say. panther: you just say it. wolf: you are like so not cooperative here. just say it. OK OK wolf: 'i've got something important to tell you.' panther: 'something important?' wolf: 'i've never felt this way about another guy.' panther: where did you go? wolf: I'm back. I was locking the door to my office. Safety precaution this late at night. wolf: OK 'ive never felt this about another guy' panther: 'like what?' wolf: 'i think i'm in love with you.' panther: You THINK? You better be sure. If I heard that, I wouldn't feel really sure of things. wolf: like you wouldn't go for saying 'me too'? panther: not if he says 'I think' I'd want him to be more definite than that. Aren't you sure how you feel about your friend? wolf: well, yeah, I think so. wolf: how the hell do I know! I've never done this before. I just know I love him. panther: well just say that and get it over with. wolf: OK 'this is the thing. i love you.' panther straightforward and to the point. wolf: hey, panther, it's getting late. let's log off and try this tomorrow night. panther: OK I guess. But let's get down to it next time. Quit dancing around. OK? wolf: OK
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On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
Wolf, I can totally understand your anxiety. I was in the same situation once, and it was my complete desperate fear that kept me from saying anything, until it was too late to say anything at all. I think that I would have rather gone for it than feel like I wasted the chance. So, I thought about how I would have done it, if I'd taken the chance, just changing the details a bit to take into account the fact that you're guys, not women. You've said that your roommate is very cool about slash. Maybe, if he's that open, you could ask him if he's ever thought about being with a man. Set the scene. A late night, both of you are relaxed, maybe having beer while watching a game, or just after one. Bring up the subject of the show and the rally, and then bring up slash. Maybe if you talk around the subject enough, you'll feel confident enough to just ask him. Feel him out, get an idea of how he feels. Be subtle. I know that's hard, subtlety is not my strong point (big understatement here), but let him know that you're interested. If you let him know that you're interested, but in a subtle way that lets him pretend that it was never said if he's not interested, then you can both save face. And let him know that he's important to you. Not just in this conversation, but maybe in the days while you're building up the nerve to have the conversation. Do things for him that are special. Tell him how much you appreciate his friendship, and the things that he does for you. Let him know that this isn't just about sex for you, but about feelings. Anyways, if I were to write a story where Jake told Joe how he felt, that's how I'd do it. Of course, right now I'm working on a story that's from the opposite angle; that is, Joe realizes how he feels about Jake, deals with it, and then finally tells him. (See, I knew I could make this whole ramble on topic! Easy!) And yes, that means that I'm working on Cicada's Cry again. "The story that will not die" I call it. Humph. It gives me a headache. But I just can't give it up. Hope this helps, Karen oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
wolf: you back? panther: yes wolf: OK your turn to talk. panther: well, maybe i wouldn't just talk. maybe i would sort of do it by touch. wolf: LOL oh, you're more of a man of action? panther: maybe touch his hair. i love his hair. wolf: oh i know, you should brush his hair. most people love having their hair groomed. if they have hair ;) panther: hey, none of that. so hairbrushing. like at slumber parties. :) wolf: yeah. oh yeah, you're going to a slumber party. perfect! panther: i KNOW i don't want to do this in public. Are you crazy?! wolf: when in rome.. panther: i may indulge in hairbrushing if the rest of rome does hairbrushing but i am NOT going to spill my guts at a panther: slumber party surrounded by about a dozen other strangers. i don't care how much they are into slash. i'm NOT going to be their next panther: slash hobby. this is personal. it's private. wolf: whoa. calm down. sorry i mentioned it. OK hairbrushing is good. so you need a private place. panther: well the host offered to let us use one of the bedrooms since so many of the guests are women. that might work. wolf: you are going to be announcing *this* the same night you will be SHARING a BED at a *stranger's* house? wolf: in a room where there are a dozen people sleeping outside?! are you crazy? How will you ever get to sleep?! panther: well with all those people around you can bet i won't be indulging in anything else but talking. wolf: but won't you get ... i don't know... turned on? wolf: I know that if I took my roommate into a bedroom and started saying 'i love you' and then got in the bed! I could not do it. wolf: *either* IT. panther: well that rules out the guest bedroom for the confessional. wolf: well I guess you'll have to figure location later. so you're brushing his hair. then what? panther: well, what would you do if your roommate started brushing your hair? wolf: oh man! melt. I'd be thinking 'take me now!' panther: but what would you SAY? wolf: OK i'm your roommate and you're you and you brush my hair and i go 'mmmmmmm' or 'that feels good' or something. panther: and then i can't talk and i just brush his hair. You know I really can't do this. I know it was my idea but i just can't see panther: myself planning a 'spontaneous' conversation. And I feel weird pretending you're him. I mean you 'talk' sort of like him and panther: you're about the same age but wolf: i'm not him. panther: yeah. sorry. wolf: no problem. we tried. we got to be sounding boards. at least a little bit. no harm, no foul. panther: so that's it, then? wolf: yeah, I guess. we can still do chat sometime. about other stuff if you want. wolf: I like being able to talk to someone that understands panther: yeah. me too. I guess that would be OK. wolf: I should log off. I have an early day tomorrow. panther: OK. let's log off.
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