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[Sorry, no brother.] This last one seems like a possibility. Eliminates the worry about saying the right words. At least for a while. --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Hey Wolf, I'm all for the hauling off and kissing your roommate, I think we kiss people way too infrequently. Now, one problem with this theory is if there's any kind of height difference between the two of you. If you're significantly taller or shorter than your roommate, then it's almost impossible to just kiss them out of the blue. Take it from someone who knows. I'm short and the guy I like is tall. It was his birthday yesterday and I planned on kissing him as part of a birthday greeting. Well when I got up close to plant one on him, I realized there was no way in hell I was going to be able to kiss him without some sort of co-operation on his part. My lips just didn't reach that high. :) So I guess my warning is if your roommate is taller than you, you might not be able to kiss him out of the blue. Just something to think about. Kelly oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Hi Panther,
Yesterday my dancing partner Claudia told me of her telling her roommate that she is (well was, its some time ago) in love with her. So from what I read much the same situation you are in. 1. Here is the advice she got from her brother: "just give her some flowers as a present". That sounds like a good advice and all guys I know love flowers too. 2. Even though there had been a lot of touching and intimacy between Claudia and her roommate and the roommate telling her 'I'm bi of course', she was quite shocked by the declaration of love and they didn't get together. But don't let this stop your efforts. And of course she didn't give her flowers. ... Wish you luck Anja oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
wolf: hi. thanks for agreeing to meet here. panther: sure. what's up? no rehearsals or anything i hope. wolf: no. no rehearsals. have you told him yet? panther: no, you? wolf: no. thinking of doing it the day after the rally after all the excitement kind of levels off. How about you? panther: was thinking something like that myself. so is that what you wanted to do chat about? wolf: no. panther: you still there? wolf: yes. panther: well? I can't just hang around waiting. I'm at work. It's slow here but I'm supposed to be working. So 'chat.' wolf: OK. Do you know anything about m/m sex? panther: you mean personally? no. not from personal experience. I know stuff from hearing it around work. Terms. Some descriptions. panther: I'm in law enforcement so I hear about the not so pleasant aspects more than I want to. Why? wolf: well i'm starting to panic about telling him because then i might have to deal with this sex thing and i start thinking about it wolf: and my mind just freezes up so i don't know what to do panther: you're just starting to think about the sex aspect NOW? wolf: yeah. I mean I really do love him a LOT. I just hadn't really thought past that. or if i did start to think past that i just sort of wolf: didn't go there. i must have used up several paper bags just to breathe after starting down that path so I'm just !! panther: Where did you THINK this was going to go? Did you think you would declare your overwhelming love for him and then he would say 'me too' panther: and then what? you were just going to just go on as you always had? or just hold hands or something? wolf: no need to get nasty, man, i'm basically a virgin here and i'm scared and i don't know much and i'm seriously considering giving up on wolf: the whole deal because i just don't know what the hell i'm doing and i was hoping you did or could give me advice but if you want to panther: sorry sorry wolf: give me a hard time wolf: OK panther: let me ask you a question. when you imagine yourself announcing this little secret to this guy, if he said 'me too,' panther: how long did you think the romance or the relationship would last? Are you thinking long haul, here? wolf: that's part of the problem. when i think about my previous relationships. they were all with women. well they all left me. wolf: either they had to leave because of circumstances or they thought i was too flaky and got mad at me and finally left. wolf: but when i think about this guy, i don't really see any reason why I couldn't be friends with him forever. the thought is pretty scary wolf: and i'm not sure anyone would want to stick around with me that long. i've never really had that. panther: So if you are that sure you want the two of you to have something for the long term, then this sex thing is very likely to come up wolf: as it were. panther: so your question is what? how to do it? wolf: well sort of. it's just that it sounds so gross. panther: all of it? wolf: no just some of it. how explicit do you want me to get? I mean you're at work, right? panther: well, I don't want to get too crude but I can get *specific* as long as no one walks by my desk. it's pretty quiet here panther: and most people know not to disturb me unless it's crucial and mostly i'm supposedly doing paper work so i guess it's OK. wolf: be back in a minute. wolf: i'm back. i locked the door to my office and put up a do not disturb sign. so i guess i'm OK too. panther: I was just wondering. Can you remember what you thought when you first heard about het sex? wolf: well sort of. my mom started leaking the information in bits and pieces from when i was too young to even know what she was talking about wolf: then when i was about 11 i didn't want her to talk to me about that stuff. LOL I was the one who was too embarrassed. And I didn't wolf: have a dad. so she had her boyfriend tell me the basics and later when I was older, she gave me her copy of The Joy of Sex. panther: OK so when the boyfriend told you the basics, what did you think about the whole thing? wolf: I thought the whole thing sounded pretty weird. He wasn't really clear and I thought I was supposed to pee in the girl. wolf: so the whole thing sounded really gross. panther: so did you get over it? :) wolf: well, yeah. no need to laugh at me. this still seems *different* panther: so have you ever gone down on a woman? panther: hello? you still there? wolf: well, yeah. panther: and when somebody told you about that the first time? wolf: yeah, the smells and the fluids and that's where the menstrual blood comes out -- all those thoughts. I thought I would just gag. panther: but did that happen? wolf: well no, actually it was kind of fun. they really LIKE that! I get your point, man, but I *still* feel strange about all this and wolf: i still feel pretty clueless panther: well why don't you get a copy of the Joy of Gay Sex? wolf: already did. first thing. i mean, at first i just had names for the acts in my head. just the words. no pictures. wolf: it was all pretty abstract. and then I looked at their drawings and the drawings are artfully done and all but I looked at some pretty wolf: basic stuff and saw this picture of a guy sticking 2 fingers in a guy's butt and it just felt so *in my face* and i just froze panther: you're really not getting this. You've probably done the moral equivalent of a lot of the stuff in that book. You've probably panther: stuck fingers and other body parts into wet orifices. You've put your mouth on someone's privates. panther: You've probably asked another person to put their mouth on yours. Did anybody object to that? wolf: well, yeah, sometimes. some women are grossed out about putting their mouths on men's penises, let alone tasting semen. panther: But some don't, right? So it's not *objectively* 'gross' right? wolf: yeah, man, you're right. I'm mean I get this *intellectually* but I'm still pretty nervous here. I mean you said you've never ... either wolf: so why are you so calm? panther: actually, i've been pretty unfair. i've been pretty nervous, too. I've been just laying out for you the train of panther: thought I've been on for a while. What *I* am worried about is that my roommate will have the same panicky reaction you're having. panther: I guess I just didn't want to think about how hard it is to go through *another* 'first time.' It's hard to face the fact panther: that even being as 'experienced' as you think you are, there are still things that can trip you up. and when it has to do panther: with emotions with another person, you don't really have control over the outcome and that scares the hell out of me. wolf: tell me about it! panther: well, I guess I really haven't helped you feel any less clueless. Sorry. wolf: NO! no you've really helped a lot. Just needed to think about this. You're very sort of linear in how you think about this stuff wolf: it's somehow reassuring. I actually sort of thought that because you were older, you'd be more conservative about all this wolf: stuff. but you aren't you're MUCH more together than i am. panther: maybe age is an advantage. You might think about the fact that your guy is older, been around longer. Maybe he can be panther: reassuring too. Give him a chance. Another thing to keep in mind, is that it may be a 'first' for him, also. He may be panther: as nervous as you are. wolf: oh, man, you are SO right. I just don't see that sometimes because he's so .. not really *calm* .. but he just doesn't seem to wolf: get afraid of things. panther: maybe he does but he just doesn't show it. wolf: yeah, actually, you've got him pegged. The strong, silent type. The spirit of Gary Cooper lives! panther: hey, wolf, I've been summoned. I'm logging out. wolf: bye
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Hey, Wolf, I was thinking over our most recent chat and started wondering. If you had such an adverse reaction to the idea of m/m sex, why are you on a slash-oriented list? --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:
That's a good question. While a lot of listmembers seem to get an erotic thrill from the sex in the stories, I was drawn to the list because I identified to much with the guys on the show. I could see the love there and felt like reading fanfic that dealt with that aspect of their relationship. I didn't know who the good writers were at first and I didn't know how explicit the NC-17 stuff got. The first time I read a PWP, I was *so* ... well 'shocked' isn't exactly the work. I just wasn't ready for it. Now I actually read the less explicit stuff or read the stories with more plot and just kind of skim the sex scenes. And even when I do read those scenes, it's really just words on the page. It's stuff somebody *else* is doing. But there are no pictures, so it's more abstract. And it's not me. I guess what I'm saying is that I tend to distance myself from the action. Maybe I should try to read more of this stuff to get used to the idea. What do you think? Sort of like research. Catcha later, --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Hey, Wolf: So you say you're reading slash for research? How're you coming with that? ;) --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:
Man, you are SO bad! ;) BTW, you guys doing anything special for the holidays? I'm trying to come up with a good idea for us. --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
I don't know about 'special.' We'll probably do what we did last year, just have dinner with friends. How about you guys? What do you usually do? Do you exchange gifts or anything like that? --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:
Having dinner with friends *is* special to me. That's what we did last year also. I was just thinking that maybe I could do something extra with him. Just us, you know. We've done gift exchanges, but now I feel like I want to give him something a little more, I don't know, *more.* --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Hi, it's me. Can't sleep. Tried but I was having weird dreams. Checked into the newsgroup and they're talking about the nature of 'friendship,' 'real love,' 'sexual love,' and whether they are really different. I'm just as confused as everybody else. So I just lurked. My $0.02 is seriously devalued tonight. Roomie is working late. Feel like talking, don't know about what. Are you there? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
: Roomie is working late.
Yeah. I'm here. Just about to head on home. Sorry you're feeling so down. What kinds of dreams? I get strange dreams once in a while, too. Sometimes they seem important. They're not easy to interpret, though. I can't really stick around to 'chat.' But maybe you can 'e' me a description of your dreams and I'll look at them in the morning when I'm fresh. Writing them down is supposed to be a good thing to do. Just let me know. I gotta go. I'm beat. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:
Actually, I don't need to have them interpreted for me. I can do that. It's just that they keep waking me up. Here's one: I'm swimming in a lake. I get out of the water and I'm in a forest. There's this beautiful oak tree. [Did you know that many pre-Christian Europeans worshipped trees?] Anyway, the tree starts to change shape. It turns into a carved statue of a tall, muscular man. I realize that it's my roomie. Then lightening flashes and the forest turns into a jungle and slowly the statue starts to become flesh, come to life. But then all of a sudden I'm standing there staring at the very 'statuesque' RuPaul. I think "What the fuck?!" and wake up. Not really scary or anything. Just weird and disorienting. Well, thanks for writing back. Gonna try sleep again. I guess I'll just have to think of the dreams as entertainment. Might work. Going to the mental movies. Yeah. Catcha later, --Wolf
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