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oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998, 7:15 p.m. "Jim?" "Hmm?" "I know things didn't really work out with Carolyn and all, but have you ever thought about ... finding someone ...?" "I don't know, Chief, I'm getting kind of old." "Jim, man, you are so not old! I can't believe you think that. That's gotta be, like, an excuse or something." "Well, it's easier than thinking about how my relationships don't go very far." "Have you tried to find anybody? Or been interested in anybody?" "Have been interested -- for a while now -- but it seems as though it's been one-sided." "Oh, man, Jim -- that sucks. I so know how that is. I'm there myself. Well, whoever it is -- it's their loss -- that's all I can say." "Thanks for the vote of confidence, Chief." "Anytime, Jim. I'm your partner, with you all the way. oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998, about 8:00 p.m. "Hey, Jim." "What is it, Sandburg?" "Well, I was thinking -- " "Always a dangerous moment..." "Very funny, Jim. As I was saying, when I was so rudely interrupted ... I was thinking that since we're both suffering from the tortures of unrequited love ..." "What, Chief?" "Well, I was thinking we could just sort of hang out together on Christmas. Sort of give each other some moral support. After all, we're like family now -- right?" "Haven't had much luck with family, either, Chief. Guess you'll have to take the lead on that." "Well, my experience with family is not particularly typical. Naomi and I have been more like good friends than mother and son. So that's my model. It's like the categories are fused together -- best friends are family." "I guess I can do that." "You already do, Jim." oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, tracy l wrote
Thank you for your good wishes, Tracy. Well, everything is not OK, but I'm hanging in there. Some complications seem to have arisen so that I don't feel comfortable taking that step at the moment. But I would like to take this opportunity to thank my listsibs out there for being so supportive of me these last few weeks. I have *so* needed it! I plan to spend the season with my roomie. He may not feel the same way that I do about this, but he's like family to me. He'll always be family to me. No matter what. Here's hoping that all of you can feel this much belonging with your friends and families! --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
I just want to say that this whole discussion about the flavors of ejaculate [I am so glad the door to my office is locked] is rather disconcerting. I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, since I'm not sure how or whether I'm going to tell him how I feel about him. But I thought that just in case things worked out, I should know what I was getting into, so to speak. And I thought well, since I'm a guy, I could at least do a little research on myself to see what a guy tastes like. [Oh, god, this is *so* TMI!] And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't even know that. I hope someone can clear this up. Is there *any* way to predict these things? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
If he's a beer drinker he'll be bitter, what ever he eats he will taste like. [30 years married and experienced lots of flavors same guy] --S'Belle oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, S'Belle wrote:
Are we talking hamburger-flavored? How does lasagna translate? Would beer overwhelm everything else? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote: [snip]
I have one question: what the hell difference does it make? Several ladies on this list have described a variety of flavors and only one reported any revulsion [and that was related not to flavor]. A few have reported that they have repeated the experience. So whatever the flavor, it can't be *that* bad. It's not about flavor. It's about love. Frankly, I'm more worried about rejection than aesthetics. --Panther PS. No offense intended to people who want to discuss this, especially in the interests of creating realistic fiction. oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:
Hey, man, who pissed in *your* beer?! No need to go off on me on the list. I told you I'm nervous. Maybe I think and talk about the concrete, physical stuff because I feel helpless about the emotional stuff. Did that ever occur to you?! I can't help it if you're feeling rejected. Don't take it out on me. I have enough to deal with. We were snowed in over Christmas here. We both were morose assholes because we were pretty much trapped in the apartment. And I couldn't keep my mind off the fact that he's in a crappy mood because he's pining over somebody *else* -- someone who can't see how great he can be. And it's frankly getting harder to be sympathetic or encouraging. I mean, exactly how sincere can I be when I tell him that someday I hope they'll come around or whatever? I want him to be happy and all, but I could use a little happiness myself. I could use a little sympathy here. I don't need to hear it from another cranky guy. Especially when I put myself sort of out there on the list. I thought we were forming sort of a friendship here. You have been really decent to me until now. What happened?! We need each other's support in this -- don't you think so? Did something happen to you over Christmas to make you so cranky? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
[snip]
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
Wolf, I apologize. You're right. I should have been gentler in my comments, especially on list. And you're right that the events of this past week have made it a lot harder for me to be gentle. Something I'm not exactly good at in the first place. As you know, most of the Pacific Northwest was under snow for several days. We didn't get out much, either. Turns out he's 'pining' [as you put it] over somebody that does not even know he's interested. How can I fight *that*?! Does a best friend say "Forget about her -- the unattainable woman of your dreams. Take me -- the aging, balding *guy* you've seen over the breakfast table sporting 'bedhead'"? Frankly, I don't think this is likely to fly, do you? You're right that we need to support each other. I just don't know how to advise you. Frankly, I wouldn't care what he tasted like; I'd just like him to want me to. And just telling you that is pushing the envelope of what is too private for me to discuss about myself. I hope this clears things up between us. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote: [snip]
Thanks, man. This clears up a lot. I should have known there was something like this behind so much sarcasm. I appreciate your revealing this to me. I know how private you prefer to be, so this means a lot. I think I'll take your advice and stop focusing on details that I'll probably never be in the position to face, anyway. Are you still going to do your 'confession' or are you just going to give up on it? I'm trying to decide on this for myself. On the one hand, he is really obviously 'pining' [I love that word] over some mystery person. He mopes around and is getting impossible to talk to. But he says they're not really interested. So really there's no relationship to break up, so if I say something, I'm not, like, doing anything *wrong.* But the likelihood of rejection is greater. What's your thinking on this? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:
[snip]
Wolf, Here's my thinking: Let's imagine that you were my roommate. Let's say you told me that there was someone else, someone that might very well be the 'love of your life.' Someone so important that you won't even consider dating anyone else. And then I'm supposed to just push through all that, ask you to forget about it and go for me? I can't do it. As his best friend, I could not ask him to turn away from something so important to him. As a true friend, I would have to support him in what is best for *him.* Would *you* want a friend of yours to try to turn you from the person you say you want? Would that even be a possibility? And if you were, hypothetically, my roommate and I were able to dissuade you -- how could I trust you? If you could give up on the 'love of your life'? How could I trust someone so fickle? How could I then be so sure that you wouldn't later be turned from me? So I guess what I'm saying here is that really there is no hope. I will just have to carry on as I always have. I've practiced being stoic for nearly 40 years. It's almost easy. So that's my take on it. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998, 2:30 p.m. "Hey, Jim, do you have any plans for Thursday night?" "Thursday night?" "Yeah, New Year's Eve, Jim. You have any plans?" "Not really, Chief. You?" "There's going to be a small party given by the Department. I was thinking of going. We can bring someone and so I thought ..." "You're asking me to go to a party where there's likely to be a bunch of drunk academics? Look, Sandburg, I already don't understand what they're talking about half the time -- and that's without the slurred speech." "You know, sometimes you are such a dick! I went to Megan's Christmas party, where there were a bunch of cops. Some of them were drinking. What is your problem?!" "Sorry, Chief. You're right. Are you sure you don't want to ask somebody out, maybe some girl to help you get over your mystery crush? "No, Jim. That's just not going to happen." "So it's just us, again. This is getting to be a habit." "Do you mind?" "No. Not at all." "Because if you don't want to hang out with me on New Year's ... I mean, I'd understand." "Nobody else I'd rather hang out with, Chief." "But I thought.." "What, Chief?" "Nothing."
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